Chukkiknozk

[Crabain]

Name: Chukkiknozk
Race: Poison Dusk Lizardfolk
Class: Scout L3
Height: 3ft
Weight: 42lbs
Size: S

Str: 12 (+1)
Dex: 16 (+3)
Con: 14 (+2)
Int: 12 (+1)
Wis: 13 (+1)
Cha: 7 (-2)

HP: 26 (26)
Init: +4 (+3 Dex, +1 class)
Speed: 40ft
BaB: +2
AC: 17 (+3 dex, +3 natural armor, +1 size)
-14 flatfooted
-14 touch

Fort: +3 (+1 Base, +2 Con)
Ref: +7 (+3 Base, +3 Dex, +1 class)
Will: +2 (+1 Base, +1 Wis)

Weapons:
-MW Composite Shortbow, +7 att, 1d4+1 dam, crit 20x3, range 70 ft
-Blowgun, +6, 1 dam, crit 20x2, range 10 ft
-Claw, +4, 1d3+1, crit 20x2

Grapple: -1

Languages:
-Draconic
-Common
-Sylvan

Racial Features:
-+2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Cha
-Small size
-Base speed 30 ft
-Poison Use
-Natural weapons: 2 claws(1d3) and bite(1d3)
-Hold breath: hold breath 4x con rounds before drowning
-Chameleon Skin: +5 on Hide checks when not covered
-skills: +4 racial bonus on Balance, Jump and Swim
-+3 natural armor
-Low-light vision
-Weapon Familiarity: bolas and nets are Martial rather than exotic

Class Features:
-Skirmish +1d6, +1 AC
-Trapfinding
-Battle fortitude +1, +1 on reflex saves and initiative.
-Uncanny dodge
-Fast movement +10 ft
-Trackless step

Feats:
-1st lvl: Track
-3rd lvl: Poison Expert(Complete scoundrel pg 80): Contact

Skill points: 54
Skills:
+7 Balance (+3 Dex, +0 ranks, +4 racial)
+2 Climb (+1 Str, +1 ranks)
+7 Craft (Poisonmaking)(+1 Int, + 6 ranks)
+3 Craft (Bowmaking)(+1 Int, +2 rank)
+6 Escape Artist (+3 Dex, +3 ranks)
+15 Hide (+3 Dex, +3 ranks, +5 racial, +4 size)
+5 Jump (+1 Str, +0 ranks, +4 racial)
+3 Knowledge (Dungeoneering)(+1 Int, +2 ranks)
+2 Knowledge (Geography)(+1 Int, +1 ranks)
+8 Knowledge (Nature)(+1 Int, +5 ranks, +2 syn)
+7 Listen (+1 Wis, +6 rank)
+9 Move Silently (+3 Dex, +6 rank)
+7 Search (+1 Int, +6 ranks)
+7 Spot (+1 Wis, +6 ranks)
+10 Survival (+1 Wis, +6 ranks, +2 syn)
+6 Swim (+1 Str, +1 ranks, +4 racial)

Gold: 5400gp
Equipment: Totals 5224 gp
1x Dose of Blue frog paste, (DC 20, 1d4 dex, Paralysis 2d6 minutes, contact, 83 gp), 1 lbs
1x Dose of Sleep poison, (DC 18, Unconsiousness 1d3 rounds, Unconsiousness 1d3 hours, contact, 65 gp) 1 lb
1x Dose of Blue whinnies poison, (DC 14, 1 con, Unconsiousness, injury, 20 gp) 1 lb
1x Dose of Sassone leaf residue, (DC 17, 2d12 hp, 1d6 con, contact, 50 gp) 1 lb
Blowgun, 1 gp, 1 lb
MW Composite shortbow Str +1, 450 gp, 1 lb
60 arrows, 3 gp, 5 lbs
Knife, 1 lb
Ring of Sustainance, 2500 gp
Handy Haversack, 2000 gp, 5 lbs
Masterwork Artisans Tools, 55 gp, 5 lbs

Purse: 10 gp

Weight: 8 lbs

Background:

Outlook:
Chukkiknozk stands at 3 ft tall a small Lizardfolk even for Poison Dusks standards. He wears no clothing,
no armor and no boots or shoes. He is equiped only with a backpack and a shortbow. He does not say much
and tries to get out of the way of big lumbering softskins and other longlegs and tends to 'melt' in the background.
He is very alert though and watches everything with interrest. When angered, threatened or interested his small crest
will extend and his scales change colour somewhat based on his mood.

History:
Before Chukkiknozk's small tribe was wiped out by drow he was on his way to becoming the tribe's
poison master. He set out for him self and learned how to survive on his own while still being set on
becoming a poison master.
He started dealing with criminals and other unsavoury types trading his poisons for desired items and then 'dissapearing' in to the woods
only found when he wants to. He also works as an outdoor guide for smugglers or illicit merchants caravans on occasion.
He now lives in a small cave in a marsh outside Se'traal.

Personality:
Chikkiknozk is very driven to advance his 'art', that is poisonmaking. He eager to learn making new poisons. Reading or learning from
others; he takes every oppurtunity. He has, however, a reptilian mind and is quickly irritated by the sentimental habits of softskins.
Yet he never acts aggressive and rather avoids violence alltogether.

[Charon]

Couple of corrections.

Size should be S not M.

Natural weapons are as follows.

As a standard action:
1 Claw at +3 (2 BAB + 1 str)
1d3+1 dam 20x2 as listed.
OR
1 bite at -2 (2 BAB + 1 str - 5 for secondary nat weapon)
1d3 damage 20x2 (not 1d3+1 as listed)

As a Full Attack:
2 claws AND 1 bite as above.

The feat "Multiattack" allows you to drop the -5 penalty on bite to a -2, in case you were wondering. :)

I think that's everything though I always welcome other players to cast an eye (over your sheet and my corrections) as it's easy to miss stuff in 3.5.

[Charon]

Also, for drama's sake. Use the PM for further discussion about your preferred method of entry into the game and likewise, leave those relevant details out of the bio. We can fill those in once you arrive. :P

[Crabain]

So as a standard action when making two attacks he uses his Claw(primary) at -2, 1d3+1 and his secundary(bite) at -5, 1d3. Is that correct? And as a full attack he adds a claw attack at -2, 1d3+1. Did I understood that right?

[Charon]

You can't make multiple attacks as a standard action and you don't get iterative attacks for high bab on natural weapons, so a standard action is only ever 1 claw or 1 bite. As a full attack you can 2 claws 1 bite, or use a melee weapon and a bite or technically, two normal weapons and a bite though the dual wielding penalties would be massive on the weapons, -6/-10 if memory serves.

Also, I forgot your size bonus on those, so technically it's a single claw at +4 (2 bab + 1 str + 1 size), a single bite at -1 (2 bab + 1 str + 1 size - 5 secondary), or a full attack action for 2 claws at +4 and 1 bite at -1.

Tbh, I assume most of the time you'll be using your bow anyway. :P

[Crabain]

You're right. I read into that as well. It's clear now. And true, I'll be using mainly the bow. But you never know when one finds himself in dire straits.....

Also, concerning the costs of the poisons: I used 1/6st of the marked price, seeing that Chuk had all the raw materials in supply and had to buy nothing save pehaps the bottles.

I read this here: https://www.realmshelps.net/stores/poison.shtml
It also gives some examples of craft DC's of certain poisons. Yet, the Lizardfolk poisons, Sleep poison and blue frog poison, do not have a craft DC listed. I would like to set some DC though for these poisons and perhaps other poisons as well. In the game where I am DM we set the DC of crafting paralell to that of the save DC against the poison. Just a way to facillitate these things. What do you think? Because I do not see any logic in the craft DC's in that list.
The Lizardfolk's poisons are from Serpent Kingdoms, pg 149. btw.

[Charon]

Before I get into rules for poisons, I just wanna make some adjustments with regards to how much you're starting with. Going with market value of the poisons, your wealth is 7.4k. That's not a little above, it's way above. Almost 50% up. Whilst you can justify being able to acquire poisons cheaper, the same could be said of every character. Joldag studied in the academy for ten years prior to the game. Is it unreasonable to assume he could have made a scroll every week? Should he then start with 520 scrolls? No, of course not, put like that it seems absurd. Simply put, wealth is wealth regardless of source to put people on even footing. Otherwise Ricochet could add a house to his character sheet on the justification that he lives in the city. ¬¬ Of course if he wants a house in the city, he could easily afford one out of his 5.4k allowance. And this is before we consider that although Chukk might be making a lotta poisons in his life, he is also, presumably, using them. Likewise, we're making some pretty big assumptions about what kinda poisons Chukk could craft with his +7 poisonmaking.

Having said that, I am also aware that poisons can be a little overvalued for single use items, mainly to prevent unscrupulous players selling them off. So I'm willing to allow you to be somewhat over. And let's not overlook the fact that some of the more expensive poisons on your list are pretty deadly. Blue frog paste for example. DC20 is no mean feat for tier 1 gameplay. Thauvath is a goliath barbarian and he'd fail that save 75% of the time. Add to that the 2d6 minutes paralysis and that's basically a free instadeath. For 83gp.

So, I'm knocking off one dose of blue frog paste and the malyss root. That still leaves you over budget but by much less, it also still leaves you with sufficient poisons for this opening section, which being combat light, likely won't even use up your supplies before you have the opportunity to make more (and will still mean I have to adjust the combat encounters slightly so it isn't over in one round).

Now, onto poisonmaking itself. The article you posted basically reprints most of the stuff from the Book of Vile Darkness, which is fine by me. It's a good book and does go some way to making poisons more workable. Specifically as follows:

When crafting poisons in future, you need only pay 1/6th the market value rather than 1/3rd.

Crafting by the week
As stated in BOVD, you can craft in gp per week. As an example, using tiny centipede poison (DC15). Assuming you took 10 on the check, that's 170gp or 4 doses.
As another example, Huge spider venom (DC20), assuming you hit a 13 for success that's 400gp or 0.4 doses. As a 1000gp poison you can see how this is harder to refine, requiring two and a half weeks of concerted effort to put together one dose, at least at your current skill level.
Obviously this is great for downtime but what about crafting by the day?
Well, just as normal craft skill steps down to cp, I'm happy for poisons to step down to sp.
So to go back to the tiny centipede poison as a daily check. Taking a ten on the check gives 170sp worth of progress or nearly half a dose. Presuming you rolled instead it's likely such a poison could be made in two days. That seems pretty decent for the cheapest poison on the list.

In terms of the two poisons from the Serpent Kingdoms book, the best way to judge the DC is to compare with similar items in the BOVD/DMG.
The sleep poison is obviously comparable to drow poison just with a much higher save DC. It's exactly 4 times the price of the drow poison. So a +4 to the DC to craft seems in line with for example, the progression of scorpion venom from large to huge. Of course, that begs the question, what is the craft DC of drow poison.
Well, the only other DC 13 poison (and those lower than it) have a DC of 15. This seems to be the lowest and I think it's a fine DC for drow poison.
Which means the sleep poison craft DC is 19. Tricky to make at your level, but then you are only level 3 and this stuff can put an enemy to sleep for 3 hours, notably as a contact poison rather than the drow's injury poison.

Blue frog paste is a bit harder. The DC 19, 1d4 dex part certainly leans towards a DC of 22 to craft (comparable to Sasson juice) but the 2d6 mins of paralysis ramps that up a bit. I was torn between 23 and 24 but settled on 24 given that it's a contact poison not just injury. So although it's the same price as Sasson Juice, the higher save DC and addition of paralysis push it up. Craft DC is 24.
That obviously means this one will be pretty tricky for you to craft until you gain a level or two but there are plenty of alternatives in the BOVD if you want something easier to craft in the mean time.

Finally, I should point out that some poisons simply cannot be made. Bebelith Venom for example. No one has seen a Bebelith for 2000 years. The same holds true for Balors and Dragons. Devilseye affects outsiders so we can assume the name is literal and thus I'm putting it on the list, same goes for Burning Angel Wing Fumes. Shadow Essence is gettable but is rare and as per the rules in the BOVD, the craft components cost 3/4 market value unless you find some access of your own to the shadow plane.

I think that addresses everything. It might seem like I'm being overly restrictive but as much as everyone wants to be a master of their craft at 3rd level there has to be some degree of advancement and improvement (and room for failure).

[Crabain]

First, I really appreciate you digging into this. Thanks. This, poisons, is one of these things where the rules are not really finalized, I feel. And therefore it is always up to the DM to set 'his' rules, his standards. And I am completely fine with that. I also think they are very reasonable, both for the DC of crafting and also what a 3rd lvl character can or cannot make/craft. And so, no, I don't think it is overly restrictive.
I do want to point out that I invested some feats and skill-points into poisonmaking, making him, let's say, less effective in other areas like direct combat, archery or knowledges for example. But the ability to make and use poisons makes up for that again. At least I hope. So I think it is reasonable to assume that he made at least some poisons in his posession. The same goes for a wizard, having made at least some scrolls in his posession.

I also chose the type of poisons made of venom that where 'probable' for Chuk, a lvl 3 character, to make: frogs, roots, flowers, adders etc. No huge centipedes, no dragons, certainly no devils and of course no Yuan-ti smokes in the near future. And yes, I am definitely planning on crafter the 'lighter' poisons. Unless Chuk encounters the raw venom of some big horrible beast, he just cant't resist to try crafting with that. If he fails, fine, but at least he tried.

[Charon]

Yep. Honestly, centipedes aren't too much of a problem. The party have faced a couple of large ones already so its known they are in the underdark and such things could easily be acquired from subterranean traders with your connections. With the more obscure creatures its simply because there are no devils or angels and so on as part of the story. If the players actions should lead to access being restored to such things then that opens a plethora of new options further down the line. For now I'm happy Chukk can acquire anything in the normal creature range so spiders, scorps, centipedes etc.
Glad you're ok with it so far.
With regards to acquiring poisons from slain beasts (perhaps including some custom plant monsters I may or may not throw at you somewhere down the line). I'm happy to pinch the following from Pathfinder as it seems fitting. Survival check (using your artisans tools) to harvest from a recently slain creature. DC 15 + Creature's CR. Success = enough 'venom' for you to create one free dose of the appropriate poison (you still need to follow the craft procedure but simply pay no cost). For every 5 points you exceed the DC you gain another dose. Does that seem reasonable?

[Crabain]

Nice!